Lizzie Borden - Innocent or Guilty?

[kma367]

This case has always fascinated me, perhaps because I saw the movie with Elizabeth Montgomery multiple times.

[Deleted]

I note there's several books on Amazon dealing with the case. Have you read any of them?

[kma367]

I read a couple years ago. One was basically a "history" of the case and didn't really draw or promote any conclusions one way or the other. Another was pointing a finger at the uncle, John Morris, or the "mysterious stranger" allegedly reported as calling at the house.

I wanted to get others' thoughts before posting my own.

You're up, Christian!

[Deleted]

lol, I have no thoughts/opinions on the matter. There's no way we could ever learn the truth since all of these peole are dead now, but that obviously doesn't preclude discussion. But I don't know the first thing about this case, so I'll refrain.

If I can find a book at a decent price on Amazon's Markerplace, I will *consider* buying it.

[kma367]

Frankly, I have always thought that Lizzie did it. She was frustrated by her life and wanted more, but her father wouldn't give it to her. She also had an antagonistic relationship with her step-mother, whom Andrew married while Lizzie was fairly young.

The factors that lead me to believe that Lizzie did it include:

1. She sent her sister Emma away from the house.

2. The call by the "mysterious stranger" is a story told by Lizzie and not corroborated by any other witness, such as the maid, who was outside during most of the morning.

3. Lizzie couldn't account for her whereabouts at the times of the murders, or she gave confused and conflicting accounts.

4. Lizzie told people that Abby left the house when, in fact, Abby was lying dead in the guest room on the 2nd floor.

5. It's unlikely that an intruder would come in and kill Abby, then wait around to kill Andrew an hour or more later.

kma367

[Deleted]

I think she probably did it. If you are asking if I think she should have been found guilty, I think the jury made a good decision.

By the way, I read that Elizabeth Montgomery and Lizzie Borden were distantly related. But I do not remember where I heard it or if it is true.

[Deleted]

I, too feel pretty certain she committed the murders. I used to follow this case years ago. I was so into it at the time, that I booked a night at the actual house in Fall River. It allowed so much more access (such as full run of house, basement, historical articles, every book ever written about the case, etc.) than a 30-min. tour. It was a gold mine, and an awesome "ride".

I didn't sleep well, though lol. It is a very compact home. I stayed on the second floor, in Andrew and Abby's bedroom. We were the only guests to stay on that floor; the only other guests stayed in the maid's quarters in the attic. It was creepy.

kma, I agree with your list of factors that lead you to conclude guilt. I still wonder sometimes what would have happened to the maid, Bridget, had she "heard" the attack and come downstairs.

If I may add to your list:

1) bloody towels in soak bucket in basement....apparently dismissed by authorities because it was Lizzy's time of the month.

2) there was concern/talk over whether or not Mr. Borden was going to change his will

3) Sending Bridget to go get help, and leaving herself alone in the house to possibly hide evidence; then upon Bridget's return, Lizzie tells her she may have heard Abby come home. ANY noise in the that house, if Lizzie were innocent, would cause sheer panic. How did she conclude it must be Abby, and not the killer loose in the house? And if she thought it was Abby, why would she have not run towards the front parlor to caution her for what she was about to see? It seems she KNEW there was no killer loose and KNEW that Abby was dead upstairs.

4) Lizzie claimed Abby left to visit a sick friend; a note had been delivered that day requesting she visit. A note was never found, nor did anyone ever come forward saying they summoned Abby to their home.

5) Lizzie told a neighbor the night before the murders that she feared something horrible was going to happen to father.

6) A day before the murders, she's seen trying to purchase the poison prussic acid -- pharmacist refused to sell it to her.

7) Andrew had recently given ownership of one of his properties to Abby's sister. Lizzie was allegedly furious that giving away what was rightfully hers and Emmas.

8) After the murders, Emma and Lizzie's relationship was strained; then it was completely severed. Doesn't make her a murderer, but it does make me wonder what may have been suspected or confided.

9) Three days after the murder, a neighbor sees Lizzie burning a dress in the kitchen.

Also, I believe Bridget, iirc, had a last minute confession to make on her death bed, but died before making it. I always wondered if she had seen or heard something that day, but was fearful of Lizzie, or was paid handsomely for her silence and vanishing...both of which she did beautifully.

I could go on and on.....this case is really fascinating. Another unsolved, equally creepy axe murder is the one that happened around 1912 out in Villisca Iowa. That case is really disturbing because an entire family was butchered, including some neighborhood kids that were just spending the night. Really tragic and never solved.



Jolamom -- I believe you are correct....there is some distant, distant, two-times-removed kindof connection between Elizabeth Montgomery and Lizzie Borden.

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she would be the only one with motive, yes I think she did it. jmo
BTW saw that show wheni was a kid but read more about the case after i grew up.

[Deleted]

I have always thought it was several people involved.
I live in a tiny town and I know there are things that can't be proven but the town knows. Town shunning is as good as it gets for me to believe Lizzy did it.

[kma367]

The biggest indicator for me has always been that Abby was killed first, yet Lizzie claimed that a note had been received and that Abby went out, then claimed she'd heard Abby come in.

It's a lot like the Casey Anthony case, i.e. the only reason to lie about something is to cover up your own guilt.

kma367